People sometimes speak of the 50 United States as “laboratories of democracy.” The idea is that different states can do things their own way, and the other states can watch and see what works the best.
I like the concept, but I haven’t seen a lot of evidence that actually happens. States do different things, but I’m not sure they learn from one another. (People rarely learn from somebody else’s example, unfortunately.)
Something similar is going on right now with coronavirus response. Different countries are responding differently, sometimes because of a strategic decision, sometimes because of circumstances beyond their control.
Belarus is apparently doing nothing.
Sweden has taken a different course, sheltering those at high risk, but allowing most of life to continue normally.
Some U.S. states are starting to open back up. (Here’s a list.) The cretins in the media are caricaturing this in all kinds of horrible ways, but especially when the state has a Republican governor. And, of course, the Swedes don’t get the same treatment, because they’re “democratic socialists” or … something. (It doesn’t matter. Idiotic American reporters can’t be expected to know the details. They just know, deep down, that Europeans are more enlightened than we are, while Republican governors are evil monsters.)
What continues to get lost in all these discussions is the goal of the shut down.
It was not to stop total infections, or even total deaths.
The intent was to “flatten the curve.” The area under the curve — that is, the number of people infected, hospitalized, and killed — might be the same in either case. The point was to keep us from overwhelming the health care system. Which was a perfectly reasonable goal.
Somehow we’ve lost sight of that.
The people who have especially lost site of that are the little Napoleons who are issuing idiotic orders. It does almost nothing to flatten the curve if you prevent people from buying spinach seeds, or if you send cops to round up people who are jogging on the beach, or playing at a park, or sitting in their cars in a church parking lot. These idiots prove the old rule that power corrupts.
This paranoid and over-bearing response treats the virus like some sort of zombie apocalypse germ, where one more infection might be the tipping point to total annihilation.
It seems that the public perception has changed from “slow the burn” to “I want to stay safe in my bunker until the Evil Thing is over and I can come out again.”
It’s not like that. At all. What we’re trying to do is slow things down. That’s it.
The response is getting a little too close to madness, in my opinion. We can’t all stay locked in our houses until it’s safe, because it’s never going to be safe. At best it’s going to be many months before we have a vaccine, and we may never have one.
But … that’s a tangent. My real point is that different countries (and states), taking their own approach to this mess, will give us the data we need to move forward.
How much worse will Sweden be than Norway? How about Belarus vs. Poland? Or Colorado vs. Kansas.
Wouldn’t it be nice if people were paying attention to that, rather than whether the president really said to inject bleach?
QUOTE: States do different things, but I’m not sure they learn from one another.
We’ve seen a “bit” of this given the advent of Covid-19. For example, NJ, NY and CT worked together to develop a coordinated approach on restrictions and openings. The same with CA, OR, and WA. As well, similar actions with the National Governor’s Association. We can only hope more of this continues relative to Covid-19 and other matters.
QUOTE: The cretins in the media are caricaturing this in all kinds of horrible ways, but especially when the state has a Republican governor.
Agreed, the media cretins, on both sides of the political spectrum, love going after their perceived adversaries. There’s many examples…but this is an interesting one. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-cZG81-MPQ That said, it’s rare that ANY of them (left-biased or right-biased) act as a public service. It’s all about ratings, clicks and projecting their respective agendas.
QUOTE: The response is getting a little too close to madness, in my opinion. We can’t all stay locked in our houses until it’s safe, because it’s never going to be safe.
Agreed! There’s always some level of risk. Yet, I’d like to see those who espouse this most strongly lead by example. For instance, it would be beneficial to see someone like Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick (and his ardent supporters) get out in public, go bowling or get a tattoo, etc. It might make his statement that “there are some things that are more important than life” more credible. I’m still waiting for the major televangelists that make great proclamations online and TV go to places of significant risk and demonstrate that their “brand” of faith works and it’s safe to do as they suggest.
That said, I suspect some aren’t looking for zero risk. Given they are dealing with something potentially life-threatening, has no cure, hasn’t been handled consistently well by government leaders…may be waiting for more evidence before venturing out. IOWs, they don’t trust their political leaders. They’ve heard too many lies and mix-messages to risk their life based on their statements.
Of course, we do have some control czars who might be trying to take advantage of this situation too.
QUOTE: Wouldn’t it be nice if people were paying attention to that, rather than whether the president really said to inject bleach?
When a president muses publicly about injecting lethal substances in the human body, that seems like something worthy of public discourse. Seems it was noteworthy enough for disinfectant companies to issue public warnings. As well, related sentiments were expressed by the US Surgeon General, TX Rep. Will Hurd, and Maryland’s Emergency Management Agency (after receiving inquiries).
Yes, I’d like to see the governors in the states that choose to open go out in public and lead by example.
And you know, of course, that the “injecting bleach” thing is a partisan interpretation of what he said. You could take “injecting” to mean into the blood (that’s the negative reading), or you could take it to mean “injecting” into the lungs, which … I honestly don’t know what to think of that, but it’s not the same thing.
What’s clear is that the media isn’t interested in covering what was meant. They’re interested in gotcha questions.
Yes, let’s see if governors and other political leaders who feel that measures are too restrictive get out front and center. I’ll wait.
In context, Trump was musing about testing for a potential cure for Covid-19 by injecting known toxins into the body. “And then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in a minute. One minute. And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning. Because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs. So it would be interesting to check that.” His follow-up statement (aka lie) echoed a similar sentiment…“I was asking a sarcastic and a very sarcastic question to the reporters in the room about disinfectant on the inside”. So, there’s little room for interpretation…he indeed was musing about injecting “disinfectant” into the body. Even with “testing”…if you do that to a human, they likely die.
Given this, I’m not surprised the media excoriated him. He sounded like a blithering idiot and I’m being kind. If the media is going to make a federal case out of one president getting a $200 hair cut, allegedly halting all air traffic at LAX and another president wearing a tan suit during a press conference, then Trump can endure getting rightful push-back for his careless speaking.
Careless, stupid, and downright irresponsible speaking, which should have been highlighted. It is in no sense “liberal” to point that out. Even if it was sarcasm (which it plainly wasn’t, coz’ I knows what I saw and heard), it was grotesquely irresponsible. There are millions upon millions of people who take the president seriously, simply because he is the president. By no means would I say that the media is perfect, but they have provided an important public service in bringing Trump’s irresponsible verbal outbursts, and this one in particular, to the attention of the people. It is definitely extremely important headline news.
I am not a doctor, but I do have common sense. 🙂 I am sure beyond a reasonable doubt that it is dangerous, potentially fatal, to internalize cleaning fluid, whether you drink it, inject it, snort it, or internalize it by means of a rectal suppository, and all the more dangerous if it reaches vital organs such as the lungs. I understand that there has indeed been a recent spike of people trying such a thing.
Wake up and smell the Lysol! The president’s words will override common sense for a lot of people.
PS If I have omitted any of the possible ways of internalizing fluid, let me know.
I’m not a doctor either, but I have heard doctors say that they regularly apply dangerous chemicals to get rid of bad juju. That’s what chemotherapy is.
My own dermatologist had me apply some nasty stuff to my skin that turned me red and scabby and basically burned off layers of skin.
So the idea of breathing in a vapor that could kill the virus in the lungs doesn’t sound all that off base to me, and I strongly suspect there are some legitimate therapies that do that sort of thing.
Trump lies and exaggerates. He’s mean and petty. He often speaks before he knows what he’s talking about. And for all those things he should be criticized.
But the media has shown — repeatedly — that they do all these same things, so they’re hardly in a position to criticize.
Worse, we’ve come to the point that people hate on something simply because Trump said it. I don’t know if hydroxy-whatever is a good treatment or not. But it needs to be evaluated on its merits and not rejected for political reasons, as it clearly has been in some states. Same with breathing in alcohol vapors, or using light therapy, or whatever else Trump mentions.
Trump Derangement Syndrome is a real thing, and it has real-world consequences.
If a virus could be killed by such a simple means, medical science would have discovered that long ago. That is not an absolutely a priori argument, but it is nonetheless one that the sound use of reason recommends.
As far as I am concerned, every person is in a position to criticize as long as he provides the supporting documentation. In the case under consideration the documentation is plainly there for all to see and hear. If by chance it is a liberal who is providing it, that is no refutation. The truth is the truth, no longer who speaks it, whether that person be a liberal, conservative, or whatever.
Before Trump Derangement Syndrome, there was Obama Derangement Syndrome (omg, the tan suit!). There was also Clinton Derangement Sydrome (omg, an outrageously expensive haircut from a fag!). The only difference is that Trump has shown clear signs of derangement. I am not speaking in favor of the politics of the other two presidents, but I did not see such cognitive meltdowns in their case as we plainly see in Trump.
Trump’s verbal behavior, which exhibits moral deficiencies as well as cognitive ones (and cannot be detached from his “actions”), is definitely newsworthy and should be documented. Anyone who has the documentation can and even should present it to the public. To suggest that anyone who does that is deranged is merely making an ad hominem argument. To say that Trump is deranged is, by contrast, a matter of plainly observable facts.
@Robin, well said! What’s interesting is when Trump and his ardent supporters criticize others, it’s not considered a “derangement syndrome”. Yet, in defense of Trump, they invent an imaginary syndrome (which seeks to characterize behavior they have been guilty of with their political opponents).
That said, to be fair, it’s true some people hate on something simply because Trump said it. Yet, the same is true relative to both Clintons and Obama. The amazing thing is they consider that behavior as wrong or unfair when applied to Trump but permissible when applied to liberals.
QUOTE: Trump lies and exaggerates. He’s mean and petty. He often speaks before he knows what he’s talking about. And for all those things he should be criticized.
I couldn’t agree more. Extremely thinned-skinned could be added. But, I digress.
The interesting thing is when the media or anyone rightfully criticizes Trump (as in this situation), they are labeled as an enemy and/or possessing Trump Derangement Syndrome. Every president is harshly criticized (in some cases it’s undeserved). Yet, the irony is that his supporters are so sensitive, they developed an imaginary syndrome because he nor they seem unable to endure what naturally comes with the role of the POTUS.
There is a fallacy of naming. People think that if you name something it really does exist, and all the more if you color the name in a scientific-sounding embellishments.
*with scientific-sounding embellishments
Listened to the latest Joe Rogan with Alex Jones podcast. Alex said that Sweden’s numbers/response were no worse than anyone else’s. Also, in last debate Trump talked about how great his performance is and that the USA has the best…probably because it’s USA and Trump so it has to be the best. Well, I went to a website that I trust to get the numbers. I tweeted the graphs I made from the data. Needless to say, Jones is wrong and Trump is wrong (outright lying).
Tweets: https://twitter.com/smitemouth/status/1321828578565197834?s=20
On the graph you tweeted, pay no attention to the red line. It’s irrelevant. Look at the grey line (deaths / 100K). U.S. is not best or worst.
I broke out the deaths per 100k on the second graph. And, in the tweet or followup, specifically said only Spain is worse per 100k than the US. Did orange bozo say we have the best Covid response or not?
According to deaths per 100k, we have the second worse in the countries I chose. I chose those countries because they are not that far from us economically/culturally. IDK if some third world country is way worse or not. I wouldn’t expect a third world country to 1) be able to compete or 2) even maybe have accurate reporting. I didn’t report China because I don’t necessarily trust the numbers. Although, if I was to look at it, their response is way, way better than ours.
I agree with you that Trump is lying. I don’t agree that comparing countries at this sort of level is all that useful. For example, Poland is doing better than we are. Okay, how many people in Poland travel? How far? Are they people who hug and kiss one another a lot? Do they live in places with more or less air movement? Etc. There are probably thousands of variables. Just comparing country 1 against country 2 seems almost meaningless to me.
I picked Poland back in March or April. I cannot remember the reason why. I’ve gone through the data a few times. I decided to revisit today after hearing Alex Jones give his BS about Sweden. I probably chose Poland because they are a major country situated between Germany and Russia both of which I included. When I first did the numbers, Russia had hardly any deaths. Significantly different now. I also first chose Australia and NZ because they were English speaking, culturally similar to us, and they were in the southern hemisphere–when orange bozo said it was going to go away in the summer. At the time, Australia and NZ had Covid and they were in their summer.
IMHO, there isn’t much of a difference between Spain, US, UK, Italy, and France. France has had a better response since April/May. Their numbers per 100k were a lot closer to UK and Italy in April/May. Is Trump’s performance absolutely horrible? Probably not. I said performance and not leadership. Leadership? Oh, yes.
But he says the USA is leading in COVID response. Numbers say elsewise. First vaccine might come from USA. I personally have heard from certain pharma companies about progress. Our software is used in the production of all sorts of pharma and bio products–8 of the top 10 big pharma companies. But, I’ll be out of a job next week after 24 years. Weird how Trump economy works.
“leading in COVID response” could mean any number of things. E.g., we make more ventilators, or we’ve dedicated more money to therapeutics, or ….
Oh, another obvious factor that would change the death rate between countries would be the age of the population, although the U.S. doesn’t have as many old people (by %) as a lot of other countries. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_age_structure
Just looked at my numbers for another comparison. For the deaths per 100k, the numbers of all are off by a factor of 100. So instead of 6900 for the USA, it is really 69. But all those numbers are off by a factor of 100 so the comparisons and ratios are all the same. Just the units are different.
Saw on Twitter that orange bozo called out Laura Ingraham for having the gall to wear a mask.
So, seeing Trump’s stupidity and utter lack of compassion, I had an idea. It had to do with police. Do you think police are pussies for wearing Kevlar vests or wise? If Trump was an officer, he wouldn’t wear a vest, right?
So, I found a pro law enforcement website that mentioned that in 2019 there were 135 law enforcement officers killed on job. Same website said there are 800k officers serving in US. Doing the math gave ~17 deaths per 100k officers. 17 which is about a fourth of the current COVID death rate of 69. IOW, average citizen is four times more likely to die of COVID than an officer is likely to die on the job.
So, since Dems are pussies for wearing masks, but the risk of COVID is 4x greater than the LEO risk, aren’t LEOs pussies for wearing Kevlar vests? Oh, are you angry yet? Sure. It’s stupid and ridiculous. But so is denigrating mask wearing.
And, if I may be allowed one more rant, let’s talk about “it’s no worse than the flu.” If you really believe that after seeing the numbers, you’re brain dead. I have no argument for you except this: more people die from the flu than get struck by lightning. So, if you are out swimming next summer with your kids or grandkids and see lightning or hear thunder, let them keep swimming. The flu is way more dangerous and is absolutely nothing to worry about according to orange bozo fans, so you should just let your kids keep swimming in the lightning and thunder.
People who are against masks are not necessarily against them because they think the virus is not a threat. They’re against them because they think masks are ineffective or worse.
I’m sure there are people who think the virus is not a threat, but most of what I’ve seen re: masks is doubt that they help at all. So the comparison to bullet proof vests would only be apt if people thought bullet proof vests were not helpful in fending off bullets.
QUOTE: …but most of what I’ve seen re: masks is doubt that they help at all.
Seems the reasons people don’t wear mask are more varied than what you’ve seen. Based on recent studies, the following are common reasons people don’t wear masks: political identity/tribalism, virus not viewed as a threat, limitation of personal freedom, discomfort and masks are ineffective.
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/10/29/both-republicans-and-democrats-cite-masks-as-a-negative-effect-of-covid-19-but-for-very-different-reasons/
https://www.advisory.com/daily-briefing/2020/06/19/mask-wearing
Why do cops wear vests? They don’t even work! Get shot in the head? What good is a vest? Get shot in the upper thigh and nick main artery? You’re dead. Useless vest.
Honestly think they are lying about the effectiveness of vests when getting shot. They’re just a crock. The flu’s more dangerous.
Indeed, some people’s reasons for not wearing masks seem irrational. I find it interesting these people trust the word of the POTUS (who has been proven to be deceitful) over medical professionals. Seems the POTUS believed the medical professionals about the risk of Covid-19 and has admitted so in privately.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFfr3XUltqc
I have not gone down this rabbit hole, but I have it on good authority that there are lots of YouTube videos of serious medical professionals questioning the usefulness of masks.
People who do not wear masks in close proximity to others are bit like someone who walks around holding up his or her middle finger. Oddly, it is more dangerous, but less offensive than that.
If a person believed that masks were effective protection and still didn’t wear one, then yes, not wearing one is a gesture far worse than flipping them off. But many people don’t believe that masks are effective. Some even believe they are counter-productive. You can think what you like about how they came to such conclusions, etc., but it has bearing on how you interpret the intent behind their actions.
Okay, it’s like someone who greets you with the middle finger and expresses the belief that it is really good for you or that you really do like it.
I suppose.
This is somewhat of a trivial example, but it’s like the waitress who brings my beer in a frozen mug. She thinks she’s helping me, but I really don’t want a beer slushie.