We’re already supplying Ukraine with weaponry. We’re deploying drones to get intel on Russian forces, and I’m pretty sure we’re sharing that intel with Ukraine. The leaked documents say (so I’m told) that some (not many) U.S. military forces are already on the ground in Ukraine. The moron in the White House has declared unending support for Ukraine’s efforts.
This is sounding like Vietnam.
How many days without shaving make a beard? And how many incremental steps towards full-on conflict make a war?
Is Ukraine worth it? Is Taiwan worth it? Do we have the ability to fight two conflicts? And should we?
Maybe yes, maybe no, but it sure would be nice if our so-called leaders were debating this. It seems that we’re getting dragged into two wars by a corrupt, bumbling hair sniffer who doesn’t know where he is, while Congress snipes about stupid partisan issues.
QUOTE: Maybe yes, maybe no, but it sure would be nice if our so-called leaders were debating this.
Since the Constitution grants Congress the sole power to declare war, maybe newly minted Speaker McCarthy will lead the charge on this. With something that important you’d think he and his colleagues would make it a priority. We’ll see.
That would be nice. I’m not holding my breath.
Ditto!
No. We have advisors in a bunch of other places… are we at war there?
Would you rather have a proxy war in Ukraine or wait for Poland to be invaded next and then we would have to fight because of our NATO treaties? Do you advocate welshing on a treaty? So far we have Russia burning up their men, tanks, ammo, etc without ever really getting anywhere. We can see their current capabilities (such as they are).
Taiwan is a different animal than Ukraine. I don’t see how we could defend Taiwan. The logistics of it are just a nightmare. My cousin’s wife is Taiwanese. They were living there, moved to Georgia for a few years, he got let go by FB, and now they’ve relocated to Singapore. China will take Taiwan. But, I wonder what their plans will be after that?
We need to remove our dependencies from their manufacturing and economy.
I miss the good old days when conservatives thought totalitarianism and Russia were bad.
For the so-called “conservatives” the evil of Biden and the Democrats, all of whom are indiscriminately designated as woke and hard left, is ultimate. The days of Romney pressing Obama to worry about Putin’s Russia are long go, even though Russia is now obviously no pro-active in expanding into Europe.
*long gone
>Would you rather have a proxy war in Ukraine or wait for Poland to be invaded next and then we would have to fight because of our NATO treaties?
False choice. I would rather we hadn’t spent the last 15 years provoking a nuclear Russia by moving NATO onto their doorstep.
Assessing the past aside, one must make choices in the face of the situation as it is now.
Wait, if you live next door to a guy who has a long record for burglary and you install a security system you’re “provoking” him?
The analogy only holds if NATO is similar to a security system. It’s not. A security system has no offensive or defensive capability.
We’ve been pushing NATO right up to the border with Russia. It would be like Russia making security alliances with Mexico and Canada.
Obviously the only kind of security system possible in response to historically and consistently hostile nations close to your sphere of interest involves offensive and defensive capability. The example of Russia having such a capability through alliances with Mexico and Canada simply has no historical relevance, as the NATO alliance plainly does. It is a mistake to snatch such concepts out of the blue, just as it is a mistake to view alleged past options as real options in the present. The historically grounded present is not to be treated as an abstraction.
I can see at least Mexico maybe talking to Russia or China now. With the Repugs having a hardon to invade Mexico (allegedly for drugs…but while you’re at it, why not take the oil?).
It would only be like that if the US had spent centuries claiming and often militarily enforcing our claim on Mexico and Canada and had never renounced that position, even now engaged in occasional rhetoric overtly claiming they were US territory, and had enforced the point that there was a genuine danger of the US acting on that rhetoric by military incursions into Bermuda and the Bahamas in the last two decades.
In which case, Canada and Mexico might have a valid point in wanting security alliances with some strong power.
In Ukraine’s case, is that reasonably called “provocation,” or just rational behavior in light of the constant provocation constituted by Russia’s threats and attacks on its neighbors?