Is real God?

I recently listened to an interesting podcast with Curt Jaimungal and Jordan Peterson on “God, Consciousness, and the Theories of Everything.” Peterson displays his annoying habit of interrupting people right as they’re about to say something I want to hear, but it was still worthwhile.

Peterson is famously reticent about saying whether God exists, or whether he believes in God. I used to be annoyed at that, but the more I understand his position, the more I get why he speaks that way.

Peterson over-thinks things. In a way, he’s like your high school English teacher who saw all kinds of meaning in things that don’t seem to have any meaning. But … maybe they do.

I had a very strange experience along those lines. A friend who read a very early version of The Witch’s Promise (one of my novels), also read a sequel I was working on, and she pointed out all this English-teacher stuff, like how this scene foreshadowed this other scene, this question is answered in this bit of dialog, and how it was obvious such and so would happen.

I laughed out loud when I read her analysis. I didn’t intend any of those things. She was clearly reading some high school English analysis into my writing.

Then I thought about it for a while, and I realized she was absolutely right. She was seeing patterns in the story that I wasn’t. And I wrote the silly thing.

It was quite a shock, and quite a lesson. I wasn’t (consciously) aware of themes and patterns that were playing out in my own head, and coming out of my fingers.

In a somewhat similar fashion, Peterson often seems to go into “what do you mean?” in an annoying Counselor Troi-like manner, but which nevertheless uncovers some important truths.

“When you ask if God is real, what do you mean? Do you mean ‘real like a chair is real?'”

Is the number 1 real?

It’s not an obvious thing either way, and it depends on what you mean by “real.”

At one point in the discussion with Jaimungal, Peterson went through his ordinary spiel about how people who ask if God is real don’t know what they mean by God, and don’t know what they mean by real. Then he said (something like) “Is real God? It’s the same bloody question.”

“Is x y” may be the same thing as “is y x” in some settings, but that doesn’t translate into language. “Is water wet” is not the same thing as “is wet water.” “Is water wet” means does water have the property of being wet, and “is God real” means does God have the property of being real.

Peterson obviously knows that, so what does he mean by saying “Is God real?” and “Is real God?” are the same questions?

It gets you right back into “what do you mean by ‘real’?” and “what do you mean by ‘God’?”

It would take hours and hours of very careful listening and analysis to peel apart exactly what Peterson means by “God,” but it’s something roughly like this: the ultimate standard against which all other standards are measured.

What would it mean to say God (by that definition) is real or not real? And if that’s the definition of God, then “is God real?” and “is real God?” do seem like the same question.

What do you think?

(Finally, while I’m on the topic of Jordan Peterson, this video parody is hilarious. And I say that as someone who likes and respects Dr. Peterson.)