We used to hear a lot about it. We need to get a combination of natural immunity and vaccinated immunity up to XX% of the population to protect the herd. But now, all I hear about is vaccinations, and the “unvaccinated” (those evil people!) aren’t divided into “had Covid” and “haven’t had Covid,” which seems like a pretty important thing. (Also, “unvaccinated” means “not fully vaccinated,” so some of them have had one shot, or have had both and it’s been too recent.)
It’s very suspicious to me that there isn’t more attention to the rate of natural immunity among the unvaccinated. If the goal is immunity, you’d think that would be an important figure. We’d also want lots of stats on which type of immunity — natural or vaccine — is more effective. (I’m bullet proof. I’ve have both!)
It seems clear the goal is arm jabs, and not necessarily because that’s the best path to herd immunity.
Why?
And why is nobody “following the money” on these vaccinations? They’re “free,” which means somebody is paying for it in some non-transparent way, which sounds like a great opportunity for corruption.
I’m very thankful for the strenuous efforts the drug companies went to to create these vaccines. But when money is being tossed around, somebody should be checking on it.
Also, I am absolutely not anti-vaccine. Get your stupid vaccine (unless you’ve already had it, in which case ask your doctor). But the way this story is playing out doesn’t make sense, and it’s no wonder people are suspicious.
Addendum: After writing this post, I did a little searching on whether vaccinated people are less of a transmission threat than non-vaccinated people, which seems to be the assumption of all the “protect the vaccinated from the non-vaccinated” talk.
Q: Can fully vaccinated people still transmit the virus to others, including other vaccinated people?
A: While it is possible, Dr. Cardona says that the ability to transmit COVID-19 may occur at a lower rate. (Source.)
May? We don’t know? The president sure seems to think he knows.
People who have received a COVID-19 vaccine and later become infected with the coronavirus tend to have a lower viral load according to a new study published Wednesday in the New England Journal of Medicine. (Source.)
Tend. Great. One study says “tend.” But then …
Data from COVID-19 tests in the United States, the United Kingdom and Singapore are showing that vaccinated people who become infected with Delta SARS-CoV-2 can carry as much virus in their nose as do unvaccinated people. (Source
I guess the problem is which agenda the source is supporting: the perpetual fear agenda, or the “everybody get vaccinated right now and don’t ask any questions” agenda.
Finally, here’s something that supports the president’s position.
A growing body of evidence indicates that people fully vaccinated with an mRNA vaccine (Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna) are less likely than unvaccinated persons to acquire SARS-CoV-2 or to transmit it to others. However, the risk for SARS-CoV-2 breakthrough infection in fully vaccinated people cannot be completely eliminated as long as there is continued community transmission of the virus. (Source.)
It may be true that vaccinated people are less likely to spread Covid than the un-vaccinated. Then again, it may not.
Get your stupid vaccine. But please, people, let’s stop insisting on things that we don’t know are true, and please, please, stop calling your preferred opinion “the science.”
There’s an interesting letter to the editor in today’s Washington Times on this subject: What happened to herd immunity?
A “third have natural immunity” from already contracting it? First I’ve heard that number bandied about. We do know people can get it, and then get it again. From what I’ve read, the issue with the delta variant is that it can survive in the nasal passages of vaccinated people and then spread to other people even though the carrier doesn’t get sick. It does seem like the Covid shot is going to be more like the flu shot…enhanced resistance to the virus and milder cases if contracted.
Sweden gave up on herd immunity a year ago. All the pro-Covid nimrods on Facebook say Sweden, Sweden, Sweden… ok, they tried and gave up on it. We get more data, we act accordingly.
If we didn’t value herd immunity, we wouldn’t be having vaccine mandates (or even making a big deal out of making sure we get a high vaccination rate). I think you mean we’re not pursuing natural herd immunity.
Yes, you got me there. Natural herd immunity.
“Pro-Covid”? It looks like Sweden’s deaths/100k rate of 143 is between Canada’s of 73 and and the US/UK of ~200, the latter groups of which had similar approaches. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_death_rates_by_country)
Hard to conclude much from that except that the outcomes may not depend as strongly on our interventions as we might wish.
>Hard to conclude much from that except that the outcomes may not depend
>as strongly on our interventions as we might wish.
That, I think, is the key. We like to believe that our policies and responses and strategies make a difference, but sometimes there are other factors.
Obviously we have to make our best guesses and try, but to some extent the results are out of our hands — simply because reality is complicated.
The one thing the dishonest pro-Covid people on the right do is say “Sweden is just going for natural herd immunity.” Yeah, that was their plan in the Spring of 2020, but they abandoned that plan. Look at their neighbors Norway and Finland who have similar demos and similar healthcare infrastructure. Way lower infections and deaths.
Sweden has less cases than the US?
Sure. Looked at data a day or two ago. Sweden at 62% fully vaxxed rate and US at 54% fully vaxxed rate. In lots of places in the USA, I don’t think you could tell the US response from anything different than going for natural immunity. Here in Oklahoma, there were some mask mandates in Tulsa and OKC, but not elsewhere. With the mandate, there was some compliance, but a lot of non-compliance. When the mandates ran out, they weren’t renewed.
Finally, RWNJs can’t say stupid shit like Sweden is going for natural herd immunity when they are vaccinating the country. LIES, LIES, MOTHERFREAKING LIES. But of course, they lie and repeat it.
I don’t know how long it takes to get a letter published in the Washington Times, but as of the publication date, it was not clear that cases are still rising. The last date on which the seven day moving average of cases was lower than on September 13, was August 19. We very well may be seeing the beginning of a long term decline.
Interesting. Do they fact check letters to the editor?