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Arguing with a woman, and “men going their own way”

by Greg Krehbiel on 8 February 2018

I was stuck at home without much to do the last few days, so I watched a lot of YouTube videos, including several with Jordan Peterson.

One thing that came up in one of them (I’m assuming it was the interview with Camile Paglia) was the difference between when a man disagrees with a man and when a man disagrees with a woman. But first I have to set the stage.

They were talking about extreme feminist nonsense, and how a lot of it seems to come from women who have severe personality disorders, and severe trust issues with men. The point is not that all feminists hate men, but that a lot of feminist attitudes come from people who hate men, and who are a little kooky.

Some people learn about the unfairness of this nonsense, and they reply that “men need to learn to stand up for themselves.”

Peterson is certainly an advocate for standing up for yourself, but he pointed out that, in this case, that’s a real problem.

If a man disagrees with a man, there’s an assumption that if things go too far, physical violence may ensue. Both men know this, so they either keep things below that threshold, or they fight (and then go to the bar, have a beer and become fast friends).

That option is off the table in a disagreement with a woman. It doesn’t matter how badly things escalate, there will be no violence.

Women argue under the same basic constraints (no violence), so they’ve adapted to that. Things can escalate, but only with words, insults, gossip, backstabbing, etc.

This is not to say that men never hit women, or that women never fight. Of course those things happen, but generally speaking that’s not the expectation.

So when men are arguing with a woman, they don’t quite know what to do. If the woman becomes a crazy, shrill harpy and starts spouting crazy, angry stuff, the man simply isn’t equipped to deal with that — any more than the woman is equipped to fight with him.

Peterson’s response to “men need to learn to stand up for themselves” — in this particular case, anyway — is to say no. Women need to rein in their crazy sisters.

Personally, I think men need to avoid crazy, shrill harpies, or, when they’re forced to engage with them, to learn the verbal skills to spar with them on those terms. But after listening to that segment of the video, I had a much better appreciation for the “men going their own way” movement.

Why bother?

2018-02-08  »  Greg Krehbiel

Talkback x 12

  1. Robin R.
    8 February 2018 @ 2:47 pm

    Whenever I am conversing with a woman who becomes a crazy, shrill harpy and starts spouting crazy, angry stuff, I just tell her to go make me a sandwich. It works every time. It’s probably the wisdom in her body at work.

  2. Greg Krehbiel Greg Krehbiel
    8 February 2018 @ 2:52 pm

    That’s a good insight. I need to try that.

  3. William
    8 February 2018 @ 4:20 pm

    Why argue? For men, it’s a no win situation. If they prevail, they are viewed as overbearing ogres. If they yield, they are viewed as weak. So, simply walk away and leave her to argue with herself. We’ll see how long that lasts.

    An “interesting” perspective on female and male intereaction…

  4. Greg Krehbiel Greg Krehbiel
    8 February 2018 @ 4:22 pm

    Why argue? Because if you do it right, you win without coming across as an ass. I thought Peterson did that well with Newman.

    But it’s very hard to keep your cool like that when somebody is being obnoxious.

  5. William
    8 February 2018 @ 4:28 pm

    Au contraire, mon ami. That’s just an illusion…you never get it right enough to win. 🙂

  6. Greg Krehbiel GregK
    8 February 2018 @ 5:37 pm

    Got a chance to watch the video. I think I’ve seen it before.

    Videos like that make me wonder if I have a typically male brain, because I’m not like that.

  7. William
    8 February 2018 @ 6:19 pm

    @Greg, I can honestly say you are different than “any” other man I know. 😉

  8. Dave Krehbiel Dave Krehbiel
    9 February 2018 @ 8:26 am

    Personally, I avoid such people.

    But in some jobs, that’s not possible.

    For example, several years ago, a local politician used to stop by a certain Starbucks or a regular basis. I went by a few times to listen and ask questions. I was amazed at the politicians ability to respectfully answer questions, no matter how seemingly crazy the issue or person was.

  9. pentamom
    9 February 2018 @ 9:35 am

    The problem with MGTOW isn’t wholly that they shirk their created role as men by refusing to form families for selfish reasons, but that they want to do that, and then still use women for what pleasure they can obtain from them. They want to go their own way, while picking up and discarding women along the way. If they stuck to being selfish children, I’d say, that leaves more women and more resources for the men who actually want to live like men. But it goes beyond that.

    So I would agree with you that it’s understandable why they don’t want to deal with women, given what too many women are, today. It’s not understandable that they want to be users of women if we grant them the respect of being adult men capable of decent behavior. And if we don’t grant them that respect, then there’s no point in being understanding about their choices either way.

  10. Robin R.
    9 February 2018 @ 10:28 am

    I don’t know. For quite a few years (certainly since the initial years of this century) I have pretty much been going my own way, so to speak, and I have no regrets about that. The probability of meeting someone who could seriously be my partner during my autumn years is extremely small. I have a lot of work to do before I kick the bucket and I don’t want to waste my time dealing with goofy people. I see nothing wrong in going my own way in that sense.

  11. William
    10 February 2018 @ 10:16 pm

    Interesting follow-up on the firing of James Damore by Google concerning his take on gender differences.

  12. William
    16 February 2018 @ 8:31 pm

    Interesting study by Penn Medicine on brain differences for men and women and how they can impact communication and behavior.

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