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	<title>Comments on: When over-reactions collide</title>
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	<link>http://crowhill.net/blog/?p=7267</link>
	<description>A multi-author blog with a range of opinions on news, culture, politics, beer, art, science, education, religion and life</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 08 Sep 2010 22:28:30 -0400</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: John Krehbiel</title>
		<link>http://crowhill.net/blog/?p=7267&#038;cpage=1#comment-253477</link>
		<dc:creator>John Krehbiel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jan 2010 23:25:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crowhill.net/blog/?p=7267#comment-253477</guid>
		<description>Jordan,

Like you I am reluctant to do too extensive a search on how to detonate the stuff, but a couple of blog entries by people who at least seem to know a thing or two about high explosives indicate that the kind of detonator required would be very difficult to smuggle onto an airplane, and that the things that have been tried are extremely unlikely to work.

DSM,

I know what you are trying to say, but it just doesn&#039;t work. Terrorists only win when they cause people to be afraid. Failure to recognize real threats would not constitute a terrorist victory.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jordan,</p>
<p>Like you I am reluctant to do too extensive a search on how to detonate the stuff, but a couple of blog entries by people who at least seem to know a thing or two about high explosives indicate that the kind of detonator required would be very difficult to smuggle onto an airplane, and that the things that have been tried are extremely unlikely to work.</p>
<p>DSM,</p>
<p>I know what you are trying to say, but it just doesn&#8217;t work. Terrorists only win when they cause people to be afraid. Failure to recognize real threats would not constitute a terrorist victory.</p>
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		<title>By: Jordan Henderson</title>
		<link>http://crowhill.net/blog/?p=7267&#038;cpage=1#comment-253471</link>
		<dc:creator>Jordan Henderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jan 2010 16:53:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crowhill.net/blog/?p=7267#comment-253471</guid>
		<description>John,

Are you sure about that?  While applying a paper or match to it might not do it, I would think a very small hot chemical fire could detonate this stuff.  I would think that you&#039;d only have to detonate a very tiny amount for the rest to go up in chain reaction.

Lots of &quot;I would thinks&quot; above, because, of course, I don&#039;t know and I&#039;m reluctant to google such a thing.  I doubt that you know what it takes to detonate it, though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John,</p>
<p>Are you sure about that?  While applying a paper or match to it might not do it, I would think a very small hot chemical fire could detonate this stuff.  I would think that you&#8217;d only have to detonate a very tiny amount for the rest to go up in chain reaction.</p>
<p>Lots of &#8220;I would thinks&#8221; above, because, of course, I don&#8217;t know and I&#8217;m reluctant to google such a thing.  I doubt that you know what it takes to detonate it, though.</p>
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		<title>By: DSM</title>
		<link>http://crowhill.net/blog/?p=7267&#038;cpage=1#comment-253465</link>
		<dc:creator>DSM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jan 2010 14:31:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crowhill.net/blog/?p=7267#comment-253465</guid>
		<description>&quot;Whether or not the plane went down, they won, because the brain-dead residents of this country can’t tell real threats from bogeymen.&quot;

In terms of unknowingly speaking the truth, that&#039;s up there with Croesus confidently repeating the Oracle&#039;s prophecy &quot;should he cross the river Halys a great empire will fall&quot;.   Spooky.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Whether or not the plane went down, they won, because the brain-dead residents of this country can’t tell real threats from bogeymen.&#8221;</p>
<p>In terms of unknowingly speaking the truth, that&#8217;s up there with Croesus confidently repeating the Oracle&#8217;s prophecy &#8220;should he cross the river Halys a great empire will fall&#8221;.   Spooky.</p>
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		<title>By: Greg Krehbiel</title>
		<link>http://crowhill.net/blog/?p=7267&#038;cpage=1#comment-253464</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg Krehbiel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jan 2010 13:18:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crowhill.net/blog/?p=7267#comment-253464</guid>
		<description>Somewhat on topic here, try this. 

http://www.animatronics.org/strangers/strangers.htm</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Somewhat on topic here, try this. </p>
<p><a href="http://www.animatronics.org/strangers/strangers.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.animatronics.org/strangers/strangers.htm</a></p>
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		<title>By: John Krehbiel</title>
		<link>http://crowhill.net/blog/?p=7267&#038;cpage=1#comment-253458</link>
		<dc:creator>John Krehbiel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jan 2010 00:27:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crowhill.net/blog/?p=7267#comment-253458</guid>
		<description>The operative phrase is &quot;if it had detonated.&quot; Everything I can find says that it is really hard to detonate without a proper device, which could not have been smuggled past security.

The thing is, terrorism is the tactic of instilling fear in a population. Whether or not the plane went down, they won, because the brain-dead residents of this country can&#039;t tell real threats from bogeymen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The operative phrase is &#8220;if it had detonated.&#8221; Everything I can find says that it is really hard to detonate without a proper device, which could not have been smuggled past security.</p>
<p>The thing is, terrorism is the tactic of instilling fear in a population. Whether or not the plane went down, they won, because the brain-dead residents of this country can&#8217;t tell real threats from bogeymen.</p>
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		<title>By: kdeb</title>
		<link>http://crowhill.net/blog/?p=7267&#038;cpage=1#comment-253449</link>
		<dc:creator>kdeb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jan 2010 19:05:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crowhill.net/blog/?p=7267#comment-253449</guid>
		<description>Craig - you are playing my song when you talk about Obama backtracking. I know the guy is probably a nice person, and even though I disagree with his general approach to government (more is not bad at all) and his specific approach to economics (um, ignorance???), I know that he is definitely better qualified than I would ever be at running a country.

Nonetheless, I really wish that the morning newsw on my mail service played clips from his campaign speeches right after the clips from the night before. It is nauseating how irrelevant campaign promises are.

Except &quot;Read my Lips&quot; - that one was a killer. o_0</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Craig &#8211; you are playing my song when you talk about Obama backtracking. I know the guy is probably a nice person, and even though I disagree with his general approach to government (more is not bad at all) and his specific approach to economics (um, ignorance???), I know that he is definitely better qualified than I would ever be at running a country.</p>
<p>Nonetheless, I really wish that the morning newsw on my mail service played clips from his campaign speeches right after the clips from the night before. It is nauseating how irrelevant campaign promises are.</p>
<p>Except &#8220;Read my Lips&#8221; &#8211; that one was a killer. o_0</p>
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		<title>By: Greg Krehbiel</title>
		<link>http://crowhill.net/blog/?p=7267&#038;cpage=1#comment-253448</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg Krehbiel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jan 2010 17:49:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crowhill.net/blog/?p=7267#comment-253448</guid>
		<description>Are you saying there was never any danger from the PETN he was able to smuggle on board? 

Slate seems to disagree with you. 

http://www.slate.com/id/2240155/

And everything I&#039;ve read says he simply bungled the job -- that it could have gone off.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Are you saying there was never any danger from the PETN he was able to smuggle on board? </p>
<p>Slate seems to disagree with you. </p>
<p><a href="http://www.slate.com/id/2240155/" rel="nofollow">http://www.slate.com/id/2240155/</a></p>
<p>And everything I&#8217;ve read says he simply bungled the job &#8212; that it could have gone off.</p>
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		<title>By: JohnK</title>
		<link>http://crowhill.net/blog/?p=7267&#038;cpage=1#comment-253446</link>
		<dc:creator>JohnK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jan 2010 17:28:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crowhill.net/blog/?p=7267#comment-253446</guid>
		<description>Suppose that someone was able to smuggle the circuitry for a nuclear detonator onto an airplane. He then stands up and shouts &quot;If I had a critical mass of plutonium, an enclosure device, and various other equipment, I could have caused a nuclear explosion!&quot;

Nobody on the plane was in danger. Yes, the security people failed to be aware that the guy had a detonator, but &quot;no harm, no foul.&quot;

The question is not whether we are perfectly safe on airplanes. That will never happen. The question is whether changes in security procedures will produce incremental improvements in safety that warrant the extra pain-in-the-butt. I would claim that the point of diminishing returns was passed years ago.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Suppose that someone was able to smuggle the circuitry for a nuclear detonator onto an airplane. He then stands up and shouts &#8220;If I had a critical mass of plutonium, an enclosure device, and various other equipment, I could have caused a nuclear explosion!&#8221;</p>
<p>Nobody on the plane was in danger. Yes, the security people failed to be aware that the guy had a detonator, but &#8220;no harm, no foul.&#8221;</p>
<p>The question is not whether we are perfectly safe on airplanes. That will never happen. The question is whether changes in security procedures will produce incremental improvements in safety that warrant the extra pain-in-the-butt. I would claim that the point of diminishing returns was passed years ago.</p>
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		<title>By: Greg Krehbiel</title>
		<link>http://crowhill.net/blog/?p=7267&#038;cpage=1#comment-253444</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg Krehbiel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jan 2010 17:16:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crowhill.net/blog/?p=7267#comment-253444</guid>
		<description>John, I don&#039;t understand what your point is here. The guy was a dope. We understand that. But he was able to smuggle an explosive on a plane. If he wasn&#039;t a dope he could have killed about 300 people. IOW, the security system failed. 

And speaking of security, Jonah Goldberg has a good quote in his column today. 

&lt;blockquote&gt;Shlomo Dror, an Israeli air security expert, had it right in 2002 when he said: &quot;The United States does not have a security system; it has a system for bothering people.&quot; &lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John, I don&#8217;t understand what your point is here. The guy was a dope. We understand that. But he was able to smuggle an explosive on a plane. If he wasn&#8217;t a dope he could have killed about 300 people. IOW, the security system failed. </p>
<p>And speaking of security, Jonah Goldberg has a good quote in his column today. </p>
<blockquote><p>Shlomo Dror, an Israeli air security expert, had it right in 2002 when he said: &#8220;The United States does not have a security system; it has a system for bothering people.&#8221; </p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: JohnK</title>
		<link>http://crowhill.net/blog/?p=7267&#038;cpage=1#comment-253442</link>
		<dc:creator>JohnK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jan 2010 17:08:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crowhill.net/blog/?p=7267#comment-253442</guid>
		<description>A fuse would not have worked anyway. &lt;b&gt;You can&#039;t ignite that explosive by lighting it on fire!!!&lt;/b&gt;

The whole discussion reminds me of a woman who wanted me to sign a petition to ban handguns after Reagan was shot.

I pointed out that five people were shot that day, and all of them lived through it. Yes, Brady was paralysed, but he was still alive. If Hinkley had been using a sawed-off shotgun with deer slugs, they might all have been dead.

I told her that if I was robbed while working in the store, I hoped that the robber was using the same pea-shooter that Hinkley used.

If somebody tries to blow up a plane I&#039;m on with a modern plastic explosive, I hope they also try to light it on fire with a fuse. 

Maybe they can try to release all of the quantum field energy in the plane while they&#039;re at it. 

Maybe they can summon air demons to crash the plane.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A fuse would not have worked anyway. <b>You can&#8217;t ignite that explosive by lighting it on fire!!!</b></p>
<p>The whole discussion reminds me of a woman who wanted me to sign a petition to ban handguns after Reagan was shot.</p>
<p>I pointed out that five people were shot that day, and all of them lived through it. Yes, Brady was paralysed, but he was still alive. If Hinkley had been using a sawed-off shotgun with deer slugs, they might all have been dead.</p>
<p>I told her that if I was robbed while working in the store, I hoped that the robber was using the same pea-shooter that Hinkley used.</p>
<p>If somebody tries to blow up a plane I&#8217;m on with a modern plastic explosive, I hope they also try to light it on fire with a fuse. </p>
<p>Maybe they can try to release all of the quantum field energy in the plane while they&#8217;re at it. </p>
<p>Maybe they can summon air demons to crash the plane.</p>
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		<title>By: Craig</title>
		<link>http://crowhill.net/blog/?p=7267&#038;cpage=1#comment-253441</link>
		<dc:creator>Craig</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jan 2010 17:07:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crowhill.net/blog/?p=7267#comment-253441</guid>
		<description>I agree with you, Greg. It&#039;s amazing how much President Obama has back-tracked what Candidate Obama&#039;s rhetoric and, in several instances, ended up maintaining Bush Administration opinions and policies. 

Somewhat tangentially (again), I&#039;m surprised at the tenacity with which he has kept to the idea of trying terrorist suspects in U.S. Article III courts, rather than through military commissions, however (or courts-martial, if he prefers a more established military court structure). Trying KSM and the so-called underwear bomber in federal court seems to me a bad idea on several levels.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with you, Greg. It&#8217;s amazing how much President Obama has back-tracked what Candidate Obama&#8217;s rhetoric and, in several instances, ended up maintaining Bush Administration opinions and policies. </p>
<p>Somewhat tangentially (again), I&#8217;m surprised at the tenacity with which he has kept to the idea of trying terrorist suspects in U.S. Article III courts, rather than through military commissions, however (or courts-martial, if he prefers a more established military court structure). Trying KSM and the so-called underwear bomber in federal court seems to me a bad idea on several levels.</p>
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		<title>By: Greg Krehbiel</title>
		<link>http://crowhill.net/blog/?p=7267&#038;cpage=1#comment-253437</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg Krehbiel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jan 2010 14:58:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crowhill.net/blog/?p=7267#comment-253437</guid>
		<description>And -- slightly off topic here -- today&#039;s news on Yemeni prisoners in Gitmo begs the question whether &quot;Obama in charge&quot; ought to have the decency to admit that &quot;campaigning Obama&quot; was unfair to George Bush.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And &#8212; slightly off topic here &#8212; today&#8217;s news on Yemeni prisoners in Gitmo begs the question whether &#8220;Obama in charge&#8221; ought to have the decency to admit that &#8220;campaigning Obama&#8221; was unfair to George Bush.</p>
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		<title>By: pentamom</title>
		<link>http://crowhill.net/blog/?p=7267&#038;cpage=1#comment-253434</link>
		<dc:creator>pentamom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jan 2010 14:54:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crowhill.net/blog/?p=7267#comment-253434</guid>
		<description>The attempted Christmas attack which failed because the guy couldn&#039;t keep the fuse lit long enough to keep from being tackled, not because it isn&#039;t possible to smuggle explosives on board an airplane and detonate them. It&#039;s not a non-existent threat, but a small one, as Greg says.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The attempted Christmas attack which failed because the guy couldn&#8217;t keep the fuse lit long enough to keep from being tackled, not because it isn&#8217;t possible to smuggle explosives on board an airplane and detonate them. It&#8217;s not a non-existent threat, but a small one, as Greg says.</p>
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		<title>By: JohnK</title>
		<link>http://crowhill.net/blog/?p=7267&#038;cpage=1#comment-253425</link>
		<dc:creator>JohnK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Jan 2010 19:34:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crowhill.net/blog/?p=7267#comment-253425</guid>
		<description>The attempted Christmas attack, you mean. 

But please don&#039;t tell those jihadists that you can&#039;t set off their favorite explosive by lighting it on fire. It&#039;s too much fun watching them embarrass themselves. 

(Previous paragraph not available in Ireland)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The attempted Christmas attack, you mean. </p>
<p>But please don&#8217;t tell those jihadists that you can&#8217;t set off their favorite explosive by lighting it on fire. It&#8217;s too much fun watching them embarrass themselves. </p>
<p>(Previous paragraph not available in Ireland)</p>
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		<title>By: Greg Krehbiel</title>
		<link>http://crowhill.net/blog/?p=7267&#038;cpage=1#comment-253423</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg Krehbiel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Jan 2010 17:51:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crowhill.net/blog/?p=7267#comment-253423</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s not a non-existent threat, as the Christmas attack shows. It&#039;s just not as big a threat as slipping in your bathtub or driving to work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s not a non-existent threat, as the Christmas attack shows. It&#8217;s just not as big a threat as slipping in your bathtub or driving to work.</p>
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