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Next on the agenda — it will be unacceptable to deny that you’re gay

by Greg Krehbiel on 2 January 2014

At first it was decriminalization. Get rid of laws against homosexual behavior.

Then it was toleration. Quit bashing homosexuals.

Then it was acceptance. This is an acceptable “alternative lifestyle.”

Then it was legal affirmation. Same-sex marriage, etc.

Now the standard seems to be complete equivalence and ambivalence.

“Not that there’s anything wrong with that” — said on a New York liberals’ comedy show — could be taken several ways, from a genuine expression of “that’s okay” to a tongue in cheek “I’m not willing to say there’s anything wrong with that but we all know there is.” (I never watched much Seinfeld, but my co-workers who did watch it insisted that was the real intent.)

I spoke to a retired Navy guy this weekend who told an old joke about this. He said when he joined the Navy, homosexuality was illegal. By the time he left, it was optional. He got out before it was required.

The next step is to make it politically unacceptable to deny that you’re gay — because that implies that you’d rather people not believe that of you, and that implies some sort of judgment against homosexuality.

Craziness is like an addiction. The more you practice it, the deeper you get in and the harder it is to get out.

-- 2014-01-02  »  Greg Krehbiel

Talkback x 15

  1. smitemouth
    2 January 2014 @ 8:31 pm

    Yeah, we need to make it a crime again and be able to beat the hell out of someone just because they do something gay–like order a salad or write for a living.

  2. pentamom pentamom
    2 January 2014 @ 10:38 pm

    Wow, was beating the hell out of someone previously legal? The things I learn on this blog…

  3. smitemouth
    2 January 2014 @ 11:25 pm

    Well, maybe you aren’t aware of it, but there is a term called “gay bashing”. While not legal per se, it certainly was defacto legal in many places when 1) witnesses would not come forward, 2) victims were encouraged not to press charges, or 3) prosecutors failed to prosecute because “the faggot had it coming”. I’m sure some Islamists/Theonomists would like to legalize it or worse.

  4. Dave Krehbiel Dave Krehbiel
    3 January 2014 @ 8:01 am

    @smitemouth: I’m curious, why is it not okay for others to bash gays, but ok for you to bash others?

  5. pentamom pentamom
    3 January 2014 @ 8:16 am

    I’m quite aware that all kinds of people get beat up for all kinds of reasons, almost none of them justifiable. I’m also aware that there are corrupt legal systems that let people get off for indefensible reasons.

    I’m wondering how this relates to the idea of beating people up becoming officially legal, or why you think what Greg said had anything to do with the idea that people charged with assault based on evidence should be let off?

  6. Greg Krehbiel Greg Krehbiel
    3 January 2014 @ 9:25 am

    The problem is that our instincts and our cultural norms and expectations developed during a time when homosexuality (or at least exclusive homosexuality) was a bad thing for the community. Society required men to be pushed towards fatherhood and women towards motherhood.

    That’s not true any longer, and we’re trying to sort it all out.

    There has to be some reasonable line between “beat up the gays” — which is morally offensive — and “homosexuality is just the same as heterosexuality” — which is absurd.

  7. DSM
    3 January 2014 @ 1:07 pm

    @pentamom: I don’t think there is much of a connection. I find it easier to make sense of smitemouth when you abandon the idea that anything he says is a response to anything anyone else says, but is instead a vaguely related thought that it set off.

  8. Greg Krehbiel Greg Krehbiel
    3 January 2014 @ 1:11 pm

    Re: DSM’s comment …

    Posting a “vaguely related thought” is not an unreasonable thing to do on a discussion board. In fact, it’s sometimes annoying when someone assumes that a comment is meant as a direct reply to the post or to another comment. Although it would probably be a good idea to identify such comments as such, e.g., “along the same lines,” or whatever.

  9. DSM
    3 January 2014 @ 1:29 pm

    @GK: I suppose that’s true enough: the other side of the limit, I guess.

    The lack of association between one sentence and another can cause sitcom-like levels of mutual incomprehension, though, especially in a flat medium like this.

    This caused problems recently where (roughly) I kept asking why only red-haired people could like broccoli and the response was that the President didn’t like broccoli, and liking apples isn’t the same as liking broccoli anyway. It made no sense as an argument, but if you treated each reply as a basically randomly generated text on the topic of broccoli it had a certain internal logic to it. Each post taken out of its context as a response was reasonable enough, even when wrong.

  10. Greg Krehbiel Greg Krehbiel
    3 January 2014 @ 1:38 pm

    I hear Elton John is going to use the comments from this blog for the lyrics to his next song. :-)

  11. pentamom pentamom
    3 January 2014 @ 3:10 pm

    Thanks, DSM, but I wasn’t really mystified on that point. I was just trying to push back with reason. :-)

    Greg: at least it’s not James Taylor.

  12. pentamom pentamom
    3 January 2014 @ 3:13 pm

    Hey DSM if you still have my e-mail address please e-mail me. I thought I had yours, but I don’t.

  13. smitemouth
    4 January 2014 @ 2:46 pm

    @DK If I have bashed anybody, by all means file charges. GK should be able to figure out how to find me. If you’re complaining like a little girl about something I wrote, well, what is this blog about? GK: “I think liberals, demos, etc. are stupid.” DK: right on. PM: right on. BA: wait a second. SM: you’re full of it.

    @PM My response was mostly hyperbole. The original post it was a response to had a touch of ridiculousness and humor. It was a general response to posts like these where the original post halfway pines for the good old days–as if the good old days were always so good.

    @Gk Last line of post… “Craziness is like an addiction …” If I unfortunately watch Faux or listen to RWTR, I can think right wing victimhood is a craziness like an addiction.

  14. Doug
    5 January 2014 @ 8:30 am

    @smitemouth I’m just curious. Do you have an opinion about this article? you haven’t said anything about it yet.

  15. smitemouth
    6 January 2014 @ 12:11 am

    @Doug Finally read it. It was boring.